Parish Council Precept – HOW MUCH!
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, 21st November 2008, 11:22
So we will be taxed over TWELVE THOUSAND pounds in administration to deliver two to three thousand pounds-worth of community services.
Read the full article in the Parish Council News on this website or here:
http://www.northwoodvillage.org.uk/nvmc/NVMC+News/3192.aspx
Being kind, and counting the Northwood News publicity as a community benefit, I read this as costing £10614 to deliver £2730 worth of benefit. Let’s hope there is no future proposal for a parish office, like the recent Newport case!
Would there be merit in having fewer parish councils, but with local representation on a larger body? (e.g. Merging Cowes/Northwood/Gurnard etc.)
42 Responses to “Parish Council Precept – HOW MUCH!”
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Village
- - Cowes Amateur Operatic and Dramatic Society
- - Cowes Amateur Winemakers
- - Cowes Heritage
- - Cowes Radar Ex-Employees Association
- - Cowes-Deauville Twinning Association
- - Friends of Northwood Cemetery
- - Friends of Northwood House and Park
- - Medham W.I.
- - Newport Rowing Club
- - Northwood Floral Art Group
- - Northwood Village Produce Association
- - Northwood W.I.
Parish Council
All we need to do is persuade the councilors that have volunteered to sit on both Northwood and Gurnard (like Paul) then we could have a meeting alternate months in each village, every ones happy we still have 2 councils and we half the cost of each precept. Oh and the Clerks take turns and we share the admin cost.
Sounds stupid I know but when you look at what we do now its not that crazy is it?.
it just proves once again most people feel we dont need to have this extra layer of bureaucracy and certainly wont give up the time needed for every tiny village and town. It would be a great idea if we must keep it to have a Parish the size of the old Norhwood Parish or call it a Cowes and District, ring any bells?
RBC
I see Gurnard and 3 Cowes areas didn’t get enough candidates to contest their areas. Do you think they would appreciate a merger proposition?
P
Shouldn’t we wait for four weeks to find out who our ‘IOW councillor’ will be? I don’t think the current bunch can do anything major now.
Will be a good doorstep ambush question though – should highlight which of the candidates read this forum too! (Ah.. that gives me an idea for a new thread…)
LPH
Interesting question regarding an article in
CP page 32 “The first of many?”
In the past, replies to this forum our IW Councilor has put forward the fine parish council of Wooton as a prime example for emparishment of Northwood.
I wonder where he stands now on the issue of amalgamation of Northwood with Gurnard? Quiet clearly there is still a groundswell of dissatisfaction with the costs of administering parish councils. I am magnanimous enough to state the present councilors have worked hard to meet their mandate (even though there was no election due to general apathy and done within the law of the land) the ‘Allotment Scheme’ is a success and is to be applauded so is the beautifying of the area by building small plots and setting them out with plants.
However the high overall administration costs of so many duplicate parish councils warrants a review by the Ruling Higher Council? At the risk of sounding like a well worn record, in my opinion with the present financial situation this review is needed sooner than later.
A call to all ‘withyskinners’ contact your IOW Councilor and request a review, now could not be a better time!
Regards to all
G R Cotterill. Northwood
I see Wooton & Fishbourne are looking at merging. The first of many?
County Press p32
For about £1 a month I suspect most households will just pay up for a quiet life, rather than enter the ‘hostile’ world of politics. Equally I suspect many electors would sign a petition for the Governance Review.
This thread has been running since November 2008 and has quite clearly moved off the main context of the original posting.
However residents feelings and views regarding the formation and empowerment of the ‘Parish Council’ is generating a head of steam.
It is patently obvious where the thrust of views are heading, at the very least there must be dissolution of the current set up and a new local community organisation empowered.
Problem is it needs to be given life, that takes a great deal of effort from many people. If any attempt to change the way we are governed is left to a small group of willing participators then 1 of 2 things will occur; 1, It will all fail; 2, you will get exactly what you have now!!
For those interested the mechanism for dissolving local parishes is via the following Act of Parliament: *************
Selections from 1997 Local Government & Rating Act.
Revised by the Local Government + Parish Involvement Act 2007. Part 4
1.A total of 250 Electors must petition Higher Council to dissolve a parish council;
this applies if number of electors total between 500—2500. Less than this total then the petition must equal 50% .
2.If there is a requirement to Amalgamate Parish Councils then 250 electors from each parish council involved in the amalgamation must petition the higher council requesting a Governance Review.
3.Prospective councillors must either ‘live’ in the parish or have a ‘business’ in the parish, or thirdly must ‘live within 3 miles of the parish boundary.
1.The petition must contain:
2. The Purpose of the petition.
3.Contain valid number of actual signatories all living in the parish.
4.Signed by the person raising the petition.
The petition must be raised through the Higher Council, via the officer responsible for Local Empowerment.
**************************
The ball is ‘up and running’ to coin a phrase, WHO is going to be brave enough to pick it up?
Remember also that neighbours from the adjacent parishes will also have powerful, even hostile views. Like all things some times matters have to be tested.
Expect a great deal of opposition both verbally and in print in this forum. The CP might even show some interest, Best of luck!
Regards
G R Cotterill Northwood.
Well noted! The poster 10 up (Turkey posting) appears to have experience of more than one parish council and makes very valid points on this subject.
From the Parish Counil minutes it looks like no members of the public attended the previous meeting. Did anyone attend last week? As said above, maybe they need a virtual forum like facebook, or just this useful forum.
Also interesting is that the anonymous housing survey provides an evidence base for proposed house-building, but the concern here regarding the precept gave rise to ‘No Objection’!
BV
I have read with interest the comments made by Roger M. I still find it interesting that no mention is made by any councillors regarding the benefits or not, of combining Northwood Gurnard and Cowes local councils. When Roger made mention of the benefits of Quality Council status he made reference to other Island Parish Councils but not Gurnard, just down the hill. We are very much part of the Cowes/Gurnard district and could benefit by having a say in the bigger local picture. BIG FISH in a small pond springs to mind again. It must be confusing for many in Northwood who see Northwood Park, Northwood recreation ground and Northwood cemetery all in the Cowes Area which many of us use and yet have no say in the running of these like many other Cowes facilities, and yes I know why, but do they.
RBC
Sorry Guys – can’t make it tonight (priorities).
… But once my hair dries, I will log on to catch up with any new posts – Thanks.
LPH
Dear Mr Cotterill,
Thank you very much for your most constructive comment and I look forward to meeting you and others tonight.
The issues I highlighted are basically in the public domain either via Roger’s Reports or Northwood News community reports.
Best Wishes Roger M.
Thank you Mr Mazillius responding with a large volume of illustrative facts that should be in the public domain.
What I would like to see happen is for all the people who have contributed over the last few months to this thread in particular, to attend the NPC meeting in March. Many of you have clear concise views regarding how the ‘Empowering of People’ should drive forward, well now is the time to either be prepared to stand up publicly and stand your corner or accept the decisions made on your behalf.
Any change will only work if people are prepared to get their hands dirty. Figuratively speaking.
I intent to end my contributions to this thread as I feel it has run its useful course.
Remember to those of you who serve the public:
‘Serve with an Open Mind’
Best wishes
G R Cotterill Northwood.
Dear Mr. Cotterill,
Thanks for your positive contribution and from your “quite” last sentence, perhaps I will see you tonight or next Tuesday!
What must be appreciated is that it takes time to build up any organisation into a high performing one. After less then a year NPC is no exception to this but there is much going on or in the pipe-line.
For example,we have almost concluded the creation of local allotments – meeting a need identified to us from our questionnaire survey.
We are actively seeking to create a small site for affordable homes for local people who cannot afford the current prices despite the market downturn. Again this comes from our Housing Needs Survey and will meet identified local need.One or two sites have been identified and we are awaiting advice from the IWC Planning Policy Dept. as to whether any of these would meet policy criteria.
You will note from the March Northwood News that we are forming a Traffic and Transport Working Party by inviting residents with an interest in such matters to become involved at a practical level in identifying areas of concern and suggesting solutions to address those concerns.
I welcome this assistance to me in my role as I.W.Councillor because having several minds concentrating in an organised and lucid way, makes any requests or suggestions I may make all the more credible.
We are also concentrating on the sometimes complex process of bid writing to access grants from various charitable,& public bodies etc. By this means – and the NVCP has a good success rate in obtaining several thousands of pounds from these sources – we expect the NPC to show eg admin. expenses exceeded four or five fold by grant money spent in the village.
We have also an important role in the Planning Process. Representations to the Planning Dept. have resulted in decisions in accordance with those representations. All planning applications are sent to us for comment.Parish Councillor Peter Brooker leads on these matters and our public planning meetings are open to any resident to express a view on any proposal. We have opposed some and found, in the case of the Riding Stables that despite officer recommendation for approval, the Parish Council objections supporting my own resulted in the Planning Committee refusing permission by 9 -1 and perhaps even more importantly, that decision being fully endorsed by the Planning Inspector on appeal!
Building a dedicated village hall of a suitable size fit for purpose with toilets inc. disabled, kitchen facilities, etc would need, without any land cost, a capital sum of anything from say £150k – £300k. Architects etc fees would be in the region of say £2k. Grants may well be available towards the building costs, probably on a matched or partially matched funding basis. So we would need to raise say £30k – £100k ourselves. The project would also need to show via a properly written business case that sufficient income would be generated by lettings to cover the annual running costs. It would of course be a matter for the NPC to decide whether or not to make an annual levy on the local precept to help defray these annual costs.
This of course is all well and good but there would probably be some important negative consequences. For example, the W.I.Hall is busy serving a multitude of local community needs from – obviously – W.I. meetings, coffee mornings, table top sales to raise funds to keep this branch and building viable. Then comes Northwood Village Produce monthly meetings and the Annual Show,use by NPC,NVCP for monthly meetings, dance classes, yoga, mother and toddler group, wedding receptions,anniversary parties etc etc.
Obviously a brand new village hall would attract much of this type of use which could lead to the W.I.Hall becoming redundant! (Perhaps I should declare an interest in that my wife is a Member of the W.I. !)
So one solution can become a problem!
Regarding the ratio of admin. spend to income, we could have set an increase in the precept to have more money to spend making the ratio much less. However “printing money” is not the required solution, so as I mentioned earlier we intend raising money to spend in Northwood from outside sources. Part of this process is assisted by the PC evolving into a Quality Parish Council (about which quite unjustifiable and uninformed criticism has been aired on this site), giving us access to even more grant funding.
Ask the question, “why should eg Brading or Wootton or mainland P.Cs have access to this money and not Northwood?” Answer, they should AND SO SHOULD NORTHWOOD!
Anyway, I have gone on long enough but I do hope some of the above will make readers appreciate that we are not a bunch of self-serving half-wits.
We are prepared to get our hands dirty (literally) because we want to put something back into the place we call home. A bit more help from these who benefit from our endeavours would,even occasionally, be more than welcome.
Best wishes, Roger M.
Regarding RM’s reply to my last post,
Cllr don’t be in such a hurry to read conclusions into peoples views and observations. There are many reasons why I have not already been active in the area of local politics, some are personal, others were pure apathy regarding the direction some issues were taking on the Island . Never say never is an old saying and I am considering where I stand regarding several contacts that have been made to me.
Responding to your reply’s re my suggestion on a ‘Community Hall’ Let me be clear after all that I have written about the costs of local government, it would surely be most hypocritical of me to cross the line, so I will not.
What I am trying to do is to generate some form of either interest or responses into an area that keeps raising its head. What the village needs is a facility like the one at Rookley; currently used by various groups and more importantly the children and teenagers of the area. It’s sitting is very relevant in this discussion. I really feel that if we remain blinkered to the thought of any alternative then we might as well cut and run now.
In a similar vein the suggestion re the setting up of a new form of Newsletter, possibly in a format different to all current ones circulating now, I am convinced that what the community needs is some thing that is totally without any political bias just putting out the facts and current issues to the tax payers for them to be aware what is being proposed on their behalf.
If people take the trouble to search out the plethora of advice put out by National Government during the ‘Empowering the People’ early days there is a vast amount of idea’s on how to communicate with the electors, a large part of this centres the use of Newsletters and Electronic forms such as Groups using Facebook.(others types are available) We must move with the times and try any thing within reason, that will break this apathetic ring that is strangling the hard won right of self governing democracy.
I do not want to reinvent the ‘wheel’ however every so often it needs the spokes tightening and a new tyre. You are correct if people come together and throw their often different idea’s into the debating pot then we will finish up with a much improved community. What we do not want is local councils split and working in divisive ways that benefit no one.
“Serving the people with an open mind” is the best motto, let that be ours.
Perhaps we will meet quiet soon?
G R Cotterill Northwood
Dear Mr. Cotterill, So that’s a no then!
Re your “thoughts”:-
1. Are you suggesting we build a village hall?
The W.I.Hall meets this need at reasonable rates, followed by the Scout Hut and the School Hall. Indeed we are fortunate to have these in-expensive village hall options.
2. See monthly four page NPC and NVCP reports in Northwood News plus my own Reports. In addition I have recently suggested the NPC issues an annual or twice-yearly report. Print cost about £80 per issue. I am waiting for a decision on this.
Sorry we can’t agree but I do still wish you would come to one of the meetings I mentioned.
Best wishes, Roger M.
Quote: From RM 17th Feb 2009
“Thanks for all these most interesting contributions. It should be appreciated that it is this govt.who legislated for the compulsory emparishment of unparished areas and although the I.W.C. anticipated this by one year, we could not stop the inevitable”.
………………………………………………….
Welcome Cllr, at long last you have seen fit to join the discussion on this forum, but it is obvious from your opening paragraph that you have managed, in my opinion, to be both patronising and falling into the normal stance of bringing political one up man ship into an area where non was required.
The whole point when this topic was raised was to elicit from council tax payers their views on both the way we are represented at the ‘lower level’ but more importantly at what cost!
Is this form of communication not seen either by yourself or others as a valid channel of expressing our concerns and worries?
That said, where does the coming new fiscal year leave the tax payers, where have the grandiose schemes of empowering the people left us? exactly where we were nearly 12 months ago.
Well over 85% of the agreed precept will go in pure ‘Administration’ by any standards this is not good value for money.
If we look at the proposals for ‘Outgoings’ for the coming year items such as ‘Dog Bins’ ‘Flower Beds”Benches’ and a lowly figure of £360 for village improvements, plus £400 for ‘Good Causes’
The final costings will not end with those figures, by the time the Upper Council have trimmed their budget and tasks are subsumed to the ‘Lower Council’ for actioning, will we be expected to pay for those extra responsibilities? inevitability extra monies will be extracted from us one way or another.
I feel all tax payers on the Island will be worse off when the ‘washup’ is carried out after the first year of ‘Empowering the People’ Never has such flawed legislation been shown up for what it was.
I agree as with all things, the vast majority of society will leave matters to a small number of hard working citizens who care. That does not disenfranchise the rest of us.
Regarding the NVMC, again a small group of people who were willing to give up hrs. of their time for the benefit of the rest, but even they have problems and I am led to believe are struggling to hold together. A really well done for the work especially the large flower beds around the village.
And finally,just a few thoughts for consideration; Does the village need a Community Hall,that can be used by various groups including the young people? Do the people of Northwood want a regular Newsletter, say 4 times each year where they can be updated with local issues being considered by their local representatives.
I am really being devils advocate here but let your local councillors know what you want for the village. Don’t be satisfied with what they decide!
For information the Proposed Budget for 2009/2010 can be found on this web site, if you search you will come across it.
Regards..
G R Cotterill Northwood
Thanks for all these most interesting contributions. It should be appreciated that it is this govt.who legislated for the compulsory emparishment of unparished areas and although the I.W.C. anticipated this by one year, we could not stop the in-evitable.
The answer as I see it, is to work within the system. Look at for example Wootton and Brading P.Cs. They are so well organised and supported they bring in very much more in grant funding which is spent in their villages, than the cost of running themselves.
That is what NPC is striving to do.But why not come along to our meetings and see for yourselves. There is 15 minutes at the start of each meeting for public questions. Dig deep and challenge us!
The Community Partnership similarly welcomes questions and indeed contributions from the public. As I keep saying in my Reports, I (we) are here to serve you not ourselves.
The reason the membership of both bodies as so duplicated is that good people like yourselves are not involved at this practical level. So it it the same few people year after year who eg, dig the gardens, plant and maintain the troughs,get funding to enhance children’s play areas (without a charge on the Council Tax)etc. etc.
Our next meetings at the W.I Hall are NCP on 24/2 at 7.45pm and the NPC on 3/3 at 8pm
We would so like to see you there.Together we can do so much!
Best wishes, Roger Mazillius
With ref the posting ‘Politicians don’t you just love them’
This tongue in cheek comment says it all, how many of you have heard of the expression ‘Turkeys never vote for more than one Christmas’
Well this is where politicians either national or local come in, they are not going to end or disband organisations in which they have become a focal figure, it is not in their interest.
Due to the massive apathy throughout the electorate nothing is going to change, as we can see as an example, generally there are less than a dozen good and true folk enact what they feel are the ways forward. What has been invented cannot be uninvented at a stroke it is far too late in the process.
From my own perspective I have discovered that my head hurts when its banged against a brick wall to often, so I give up, the vociferous minority have won.
This is how it will be until there is a large show of objections from the people who really matter, the electorate. Time to take action my friends if you wish to have any say in how your community is governed. Main problem as I see it is there is so much duplication of representation within the councils.
We are finding as the ‘credit crunch’ starts to hit us at local level already councils are looking for ways to off load some of the services to Town and Parish level. This has always been on the cards,even back in ‘Maggies’days she made it known when things went bad the blame would be placed at local councillors, they have fallen into that trap, but it will be us the council tax payers who will pay the cost.
Tax payers must sit up and take note, or we will suffer this over government for years. But I feel it is already too late.
Sad and disillusioned elector who speaks for himself.
..Disbelief
p4 Northwood News February 2009
“Following NO OBJECTIONS to the draft precept presented in last month’s Northwood News, the Parish Council resolved to approve the precept as outlined.”
Politicians… don’t you just love them
I am more than happy to look again at options to streamline our local councils, as through this forum many good ideas are coming forward that definitely needs further investigation.
Going back to where the forum started, it was suggested that we could save money if one full-time clerk represented the whole of Cowes within a ‘district council’ set up. At present many small parish council clerks are employed by more than one parish council. Our clerk in Northwood is currently employed for 6 hours per week, whilst for a further 71/2 hours per week she is employed by Chale Parish Council, so to an extent admin costs and experiences in Northwood are shared.
Another aspect of creating a district council, would be to reduce the number of Councillors say from 33 to 10. Is there an argument which suggests Councillors are inadequate, or do not give value for money? Firstly Councillors are unpaid volunteers and secondly if they are rubbish, can this not be used as a catalyst for others to stand against them and kick them out! I know of examples where this has happened. I do accept apathy in becoming Parish Councillors, and perhaps there is an argument that states we are over-represented in the Cowes Area. In the last set of Parish & Town Council Elections all local seats were uncontested (In 2005, 7 out of 9 seats filled in Gurnard, 14 out of 16 seats filled in Cowes, and in Northwood 2008, 7 out of 8 seats were filled)
As a interim measure, perhaps there might be scope to get the Town and Parish Council leaders together to explore common ground, and why not discuss options with the practicalities of merging being included?
A further, and final concern that I have is why was the Cowes Urban District Council disbanded, in the late 60’s. Why did Cowes continue after Local Government Reorganisation as Cowes Town Council, and why did Northwood and Gurnard (initially) opt out? I (maybe incorrectly) assumed that residents in both villages felt that the district council was an expensive and unrepresentative body, although I’m happy to be proved wrong!!
If our community forms a view that it wishes to merge, I understand that the Government has introduced a new piece if legislation enabling this to happen by way of community governance reviews. See http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/43985/parish-guidance.pdf. This will give powers to the Isle of Wight Council from 2009 to review or merge Parish Boundaries themselves without the need for going first to the Secretary of State. I have been told however, before any review happens there would first need to be a great deal of consultation. This, I am sure will be welcomed by Carisbrooke where currently there is a faction of the community eager to break away from Newport Town Council.
In the long term there are a number of options that can be explored. Disband the Parish Council, (apparently hard to do!), have a Dormant Parish Council, have a Parish Council with a low precept to support limited projects, have a Parish Council with a larger precept whereby we can pursue larger projects, or merging with neighbouring Councils. Of all these options, I would currently support Northwood having a low precept, to support limited projects. However, I would like to think that I am open-minded enough to look at all other options and table these as a discussion topic for further review.
Rather than deflecting this, I would welcome the opportunity to take these concerns forward. I feel there are a number of questions raised that first must be answered, and I would seek support from others in finding tangible solutions. If these questions can be answered, then perhaps the case for merging local Councils can be put to our wider communities via our respective parish council/lors.
I would therefore look forward to speaking to Mr Cotterill (and others), so as we can work together outside this forum of finding an agreed way forward. Does this help?
Clr Paul Fuller.
74 Wyatts Lane, Northwood. Tel: 01983 289595. Email: paulfuller@onwight.net
Whilst I suspect many residents will agree with questioning the benefits of a parish council, the amount per household is probably only about £10, and it’s far easier to just pay it rather than give up an evening to go to a meeting. Whilst I hope someone is motivated enough to put in the effort to see change happen for the benefit of the ‘Greater Cowes’ community, I suspect there is not a huge pool of candidates, and any change may need to come with the support of the parish council.
But… could half a dozen residents stand as parish council candidates next year under the banner of ‘disemparishment’, and if elected, have one meeting to dissolve?
Merry Christmas to you all
I agree with the holding the reigns comment and at most Parish/Town Councils on the Island, the public by choice are very seldom in attendance. Although most Islanders have not requested this extra layer of administration only a few know how to remove it.
A good way of changing this very costly and unnecessary Isle of Wight “Bureaucratic Nightmare” is making people aware of how much extra they pay a Year as a Town or Village especially now in these difficult financial times. Lets show the many extra Thousands of pounds being paid in by us through out the Island and then show the end product, village by village, Town by Town. I think most would feel it works out expensive for Clerks, Computers, Offices, Dog Pooh bins, flowers and grass cutting, and I personally don’t need a “Team” of unelected (on many Councils) Councilors, sat round a table for a couple of hours once a month to decide on things that the IW Highways Department or IW Planning department etc are or should be doing already, I have already paid for this in my Council Tax.
If these Parish/Town Councils spoke with Authority and clout with at least 60% of the electorate behind them the IW Council would take notice of a pressure group that big. We never asked for it in those sort of numbers so it will never happen. IW Councilors attend these meetings as and when they feel the need and make a judgement of the strength of feeling and mostly due to the reasons given earlier feel safe to do nothing.
I have already made several posts on this subject so will now sit back until the New Year but I hope more people have a view as its our money.
Seasons Greetings
RBC
Sensible idea, this is definitely the correct approach and will certainly show if there is any real desire to put right what I feel was a foolish mistake initially by the IOW Council.
I have a gut feeling that those who now make up the ‘Local Parish Councils’ feel safe and believe that they hold the reigns and therefore the power to keep this empowerment issue active, but only in a form that they want.
This thread has hopefully awakened peoples mind to the fact of what has been happening in their name. Please keep the posts coming, we need several more idea’s to demonstrate that it is ‘us’ who wish change, and it is not just one or two people with axes to grind.
Perhaps then our ideals can be set in motion in the New Year?
Seasons Greetings To All
G R Cotterill
Northwood
We have to start somewhere and your proposal sounds like the right direction to go. I think a physical meeting of all interested voters of the Cowes Area is a great idea. We should wait and see what other proposals are placed on this Forum over the next few weeks before we run with it. If its the best then I suppose we ask the Parish Council formally to arrange the meeting?.
Incidental I agree this Forum is great for voicing opinion and this Precept Topic has had more threads posted than any subject since our Forum started, Although Cowes Town Council web site doesn’t have a Forum (couldn’t find one anyway) Gurnard Parish does we could post a invitation on their site to comment about this Combined Council suggestion and the cost saving on the Precept for us all in the Cowes District. Its a great way of testing the feelings of a sister Parish and some readers may be surprised if they think the same in Gurnard and Cowes as us in Northwood, all 1.5 miles away, or 20 feet if you live on the Parish boundary.
RBC
Re:”Lets get this combined Cowes area council on the road”
This forum is great for voicing opinion, but cannot be a substitute for a physical meeting. The cllr kindly offered to meet but that would not necessarily bring together the wider community.
IIRC one of the local organisations used to hold a few public meetings a year at the WI Hall, and the one I attended seemed to be a real discussion, rather than a 3-minute question.
Perhaps our Parish Council (‘Cowes-South’) could arrange and publicise such a meeting, and invite our local brethren in Cowes-West and Cowes-Central.
Any ‘seconders’?
MC
In relation to that last ‘deflecting’ paragraph, Roger is to stand again next year for the enlarged electoral division. See Roger’s Report. Hooray.
I wonder if the next step in this Island Parish Democracy would be to have “Road Councils” this would really make representation “grass roots”.
As all ready stated many people in Northwood work and play in Cowes and Gurnard and are not isolated from the problems of each part of PO31 and most share the same concerns as the man or lady next door or across the road but strangely in a different Parish. Concerns like making the Cowes skateboard park and the beaches at Cowes and Gurnard safe clean and tidy keeping our footpaths open across the Northwood, Cowes and Gurnard area, many pensioners that are concerned that the buses in Northwood no longer go to Gurnard as often as they should so they can visit their family and friends and enjoy a walk along the front. These are just a few of the many local issues that can be dealt with by a United Cowes and District Council.
Why is their a need to get “one up” on the other Parishes on this Island, try to obtain big offices, train 30/40 Parish Clerks, gain Parish Quality status, design Parish Badges, etc etc and on top of this grab as much of the IW Councils current responsibilities. A simple answer is Big Fish in lots of small ponds are easier to manage or ignore.
Lets get this combined Cowes area council on the road, its got to be a better solution to the current Parish set up and will have a much stronger voice in County Hall, and that I’m afraid is where the decisions are made on this Island and where the final say in where our money is spent, and its not by a few, however well intentioned mortals sat in a Parish Office, and they will all get an office eventually, its called status.
Nice try Cllr, but your ‘brief’ attempt at justification for the way the model of local democracy has moved, is denying to some extent the truth of the way a large majority of electors in Northwood see what has been developed on their behalf. I am firmly of the opinion that local councils are self serving organisations,they make policies and proposals from within their cocoons
safe in the knowledge these policies/proposals will attract very little attention from large numbers of the electorate. Remember where all this started? A very vocal Leader of the then IOW Council, who assured us that parish empowerment would have enormous benefits for those who under took to go down the parish route. People are now waking up to what is being done in their name, as some one who has been involved in the buzz of local issues, you should not be to surprised when eventually people start making their feeling known.
By the way no one in this thread has anybody suggested that you are in favour of seeking a Parish Office, my view of your post is that you have well and truly ‘shot yourself in the foot’ in responding as you have. Your outpourings in my opinion do nothing to justify to those of us who feel that the Island wide emparishment has not given the communities concerned any additional say in what is emanating from the IOW Council.
Overall the make up of parish councils consists of people who are generally out spoken for or against all sorts of issues, do we really require organised authorities posing as expressing the views of their communities.
Really Cllr in your penultimate paragraph you talk of “the same know-how on a local issues, than a person that has trodden the streets, and have an interest in Northwood..?”
Where do you think many people living in Northwood work? Or indeed where do you think Northwood is in relation to either Gurnard or Cowes? I am of the opinion that you answered your own question and should consider whether serving two masters is truly in the best interests of any electorate.
Finally, with regard to your comments in your last paragraph you fall into the same trap that many other ‘representatives’ whether local or national, and that is to try to deflect away from the issues being discussed or debated. It will not work with many I think.
G R Cotterill (Just another concerned elector)
Northwood.
We can have a common (local) council in a place like COWES, and I mean including Gurnard and Northwood because thats what Cowes is in the real world.
As our Parish Councilor said in his post “but would residents trust Cowes Councillors to have the same know-how on a local issues, than a person that has treaded the streets, and have an interest in Northwood..?” I am surprised at that statement coming from a Northwood Parish Councilor who also feels at ease serving Gurnard. I think they can be “trusted”, his words not mine, but I think serving on one combined council instead of two or even three is less time consuming and will with out any doubt cut costs.
Also “Would a District Council put in the efforts of saving a village hall or village school as Gurnard did?”
The answer to that is yes because the reason Parish Councils get involved at times like these is due to Public pressure, and many mothers and fathers of the schools of the Cowes area fought a very long and difficult battle to save their schools and I think they should take most of the credit. I also believe the Save Gurnard WI Hall Group had its own action committee. These things go on with or without Council support, in fact its often a wrong council decision that makes people respond.
RBC
Thanks for the contribution and for trying to be brief. If ‘both Councils have worked together’ is that not a clue that issues are common and that a single body would be more appropriate? With respect to public toilets, seats, and the like, are these not as likely to be used by the greater community and should be managed and funded centrally by IW council? A higher precept may be acceptable if greater benefits are delivered, and a reduced percentage went in administration etc. Given that you have responded to this forum, you would get my vote for election onto a new CUDC.
I would also stand behind our local IW councillor, and I do not recall any mass call for a Parish Council based on poor representation in this area.
LPH
I’ll try to be brief… I do not support a Parish Office. Councillors should be accessible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year in my view. It does not require a Parish Office to do this. If somebody wants to see me as their parish councillor, all they need do is phone/ email me, and if required I’ll visit them at a time convenient to them.
One important role of an effective Parish Council is to monitor, scrutinise and challenge what the Isle of Wight Council are up to. In some Parish and Town councils, the local member is invited to attend meetings, report to Parish Councillors, gauge opinions and share those views with the local authority. If an Isle of Wight Councillor without an open mind wealds significant influence, a perception could be made that they ‘weald an inappropriate influence’ on the scrutiny role of Parish Councillors on the local authority.
In addition to this Isle of Wight Councillors are strategic policy makers. This may or may not conflict with their Parish Councillor role when looking at planning matters, licensing issues, transport issues, education reform etc. This may inhibit their influence, and therefore their right to vote. For Councillors it is important to separate their roles as a Parish Councillor and their duties as an Isle of Wight Councillor. In some areas Isle of Wight Councillors attend meetings as an IW Councillor only (as is the case currently in Gurnard), and in others they attend meetings also as Parish Councillors as Roger does here. From my perspective I see both options have pros and cons, and I would be the first to acknowledge that Roger would defend his stance.
I am happy to justify my role as a Gurnard Parish Councillor. I joined Gurnard Parish Council in 2005, following canvassing for the Isle of Wight Council Election. The reason I joined, was because it seemed plain daft to canvass each household, then do nothing to follow up all that I learnt from residents. I see my dual role is hugely beneficial. I have long held the view that neighbouring Parish Councils should work closer. Traditionally, they didn’t, by serving until 2005 on Cowes Town Council and from 2005 on Gurnard, I felt that I had a background supporting our new Parish Council in Northwood. In the last few years both Councils have worked together on addressing shortcomings on our bus service, housing needs issues and challenging ’peripheral’ planning applications. I also have maintained good relationships with former colleagues from Cowes Town Council with good things coming together at Northwood Cemetery. I serve on this executive committee as an individual, as a team of 9 members. Coincidentally in their wider lives, one is a Gurnard Parish Councillor and four are Cowes Town Councillors.
If residents feel my conflict of interest by serving on two parish councils is detrimental I am more than happy to listen. Indeed most Parish Councillors tell me they consider my position to be of benefit. If either didn’t I would be happy to listen and review my position.
The reasons I wouldn’t support resurrecting a Cowes Urban District Council, is Councillors from Cowes, Gurnard and Northwood would determine what the local precept would be. As established Parish and Town Council’s with ongoing projects (and higher precepts!), I would feel uneasy to support Northwood Tax Payers paying to devolve public toilets for Cowes or Gurnard, paying for a full time clerk (when Councillors can, and want to do many duties for free in Northwood), or paying for projects unique to specific neighbourhoods. Would a District Council put in the efforts of saving a village hall or village school as Gurnard did? I know, that I’m shooting myself in the foot here, but would residents trust Cowes Councillors to have the same know-how on a local issues, than a person that has treaded the streets, and have an interest in Northwood..?
With the creation of Town Centre Managers, beyond Quality Parish Councils, and citizens panels looming perhaps the role of the traditional Isle of Wight Councillor has been eroded so far that they are now surplus to the Islands requirements. Whether you blame a politically correct national Government, or disinterested Isle of Wight Councillors the end result remains the same.
CLLR. PAUL FULLER (Northwood Parish Councillor and Gurnard Parish Councillor)
74 Wyatts Lane, Northwood.
Tel: 289595
Congratulations to the above post, he/she has got it perfectly correct. All that has been achieved on the Island is to take us back to the 70′s when petty back biting was the norm.
Where are the people with backbone and spirit to take on these ill conceived, so called democratic changes and attempt to return the Island to a democratic haven. At least the costs would be driven down over time.
The current fiscal problems that are driving this nation down,including the Island, then any way that can cut the cost of living down must be considered.
Profligacy is great when you have deep bottomless pockets, unfortunately residents struggle hard to maintain their way of life. What we desperately require is balanced leadership coupled with a proficient delivery of services.
For information of one poster who has queried how parish councils can be removed or amalgamated, check on the Government web site and browse
to:- Part 4. 2007 Local Government and Parish Involvement Act. where all their questions will be answered.
G R Cotterill Northwood.
“The problem is not apathy, it is that a majority of residents see no point in having a Parish Council! All we have done is sleepwalked into paying more money for the same services that the IOW Council did and should provide.”
This was a statement made by a resident earlier in the year on a “Northwood Parish Nominations” post. I don’t know who sent it but it is still very true and it applies to most Island Parish Councils. If readers think this is not the case ask your family and friends what they know about Parish Councils, who is on them were they elected and what if any powers they have etc.
It was not so long ago that the decision was made to amalgamate Medina Borough and South Wight Councils to save costs and stop the stupid petty arguments of how much two councils charge us and how they spend our money, on this, our relatively small Island. I pay my Council Tax and I am happy with one Council but I expect a professional, and efficiently run Council. If that is not happening the answer is for us to fix it, via the ballot box and not let them spread the load thinly across a band of volunteers so its more difficult to apportion blame, and that is not a political statement as I have no loyalty to any political party.
RBC
Maybe I don’t understand parish councils, but what possible purpose could a parish office have, especially here in Northwood?
“No one is suggesting that Northwood PC is not transparent …”
Indeed, it could be said that you could see straight through…
(http://www.iwcp.co.uk/Features/The_Island_Life/See_through_the_robust_banter.aspx)
Without wishing to go down the road of turning this post into a ‘personal crusade’ against any one particular person, which would benefit no one.I prefer to stick within generalisations. However the question that sticks in my mind is the efficacy of the whole way we are governed at local level.
I believe that parish councils in their current form should be radically altered and the numbers of them reduced by using schemes very much like that was used when setting up the old Cowes Urban District Council. Amalgamate the current set up into larger more effective and more importantly produce savings that we can really see.
No one is suggesting that Northwood PC is not transparent but I would dare question ‘are we getting value for money?’ with the present set up.
Watch all over the Island, parish councils will be offering up grand schemes, ie. each parish to have its own headquarters, all of these will push up costs for the already over burdened local tax payer
Finally I would like to make it quiet clear I have no political stance, only a wish to have a fair and democratic community with in which to live.
G R Cotterill. Northwood
GRC – Apology accepted.
Your quote was correct, as was the one above. If you got to the bottom of the article you would find that there is a December meeting, and any members of the public may be well advised to make an early representation.
I agree with the views of an earlier post “Where does allowing IOW Councillors to serve on Parish Councils benefit proper democracy?” but I also add, where does serving as a Councilor on two neighbouring Parish Councils at the same time not appear to be questionable.
Quote from report by Northwood Parish Council representative: (Northwood News)
“The Parish Council welcomes your views and suggestions. These will be tabled at our January meeting, whereby a precept will be formally approved. If you wish to respond please ensure this is in writing by 12 noon, Monday 5th January 2009, to Parish Clerk, Barbara Herbert, 11 Wyatt’s Lane, Northwood”.
Sorry to be pedantic the above quote clarifies the date and time scale for representations to the Parish Council.
I have long held the view that the Island is over governed, accepting that it has special issues re it’s isolation by sea but all else is similar to comparable populations elsewhere in the UK.
There are going to be reductions in the size of the IOW Council soon, this should be matched by merging or consolidating some of the parish councils that are so similar in their populace and the services they are lawfully bound to enact
Why when the Government put forward suggestion to create Parish Councils under the local government act did they not make provision for parishes to amalgamate, where it was believed such a merging would be both financially and more proficient in the services it provided?
Yes another correspondent is right when saying Newport PC is receiving flack as soon as news came into the public domain regarding their searching for a building in which to hold meetings. Don’t be fooled as time evolves many of the Parish Councils will go down a similar route, why? because having a central HQ gives both credence and status, never mind the costs imposed on the local residents through precepts that have an propensity to continually expand.
G R Cotterill Northwood.
I think there is a meeting in December. The article linked from the original poster’s message advises:
Northwood Parish Council, 7.00pm Tuesday 2nd December.
Whilst the public could attend and challenge, are the costs not all necessary for a Parish Council, and hence the only significant reduction achievable would be by amalgamation? (Poster 2 indicated this as a way forward, but how would this process start?)
I guess it does provide employment, and some funds remain in the local economy, but it does seem to resemble a ‘pyramid selling’ scheme with the IW council having set it up, to cycle funds below it. Maybe we should call it ‘Councillors empowering councillors’.
It is not surprising that as soon as money comes into the equation, then the vast majority of the people of Northwood wake up to the fact that there is a precept being raised in ‘Our’ name by the parish council. Without wishing to appear to say “I warned you so” in a post when the parish council was being bought into being; I did raise the spectre of this happening. This is only the beginning within a few short years this precept will be massive as more and more ‘benefits’ appear on agenda’s and the council will take on board because they want to seem to be doing some thing and convince the electors into giving them a vote next time round.
More importantly I will go so far as to say that the IOW Council will see great benefit in transferring some services to within the parish remits? They would see this as a way of laying off ire directed at them and of course costing them less.
Where we fall down is we let ‘people power’ go unchallenged because very few turn out to make sure decisions are challenged and questions raised from the floor. The council is required by law to give proper notice on dates, times, venues for all of their meetings; which it does; complaining in this type of forum is usually too late. Turn up and challenge the council, if you don’t take part in my view you loose the ability to affect the direction of issues that are important to us all.
In relation to costs examine the various parish councils see how many names keep cropping up; I am not aware local democracy has professional councillors? There is so much duplication within parishes that in these crucial times then profligacy is some thing we cannot afford. Where does allowing IOW Councillors to serve on Parish Councils benefit proper democracy? unless I am way off base by having duplicate representation can only mean there is a common seam of thought running throughout the Island; cannot be good.
Even in the ‘land of the free’ (USA) you cannot be both a Senator and sit in the House of Representatives.
There must be people in Northwood of the ilk of John Wortham who harries the IOW Council? Stand up and be counted.
The next parish council meeting is January 2009 when the ‘precept’ will be discussed.
G R Cotterill Northwood.
Would that be a return to a Cowes Urban District Council set up? Having seen several Island PCs in action, its my view, lots of small PCs are not the answer. PCs don’t have the authority of a proper Council and it appears only get paid lip service by many County Hall Departments.
Our Northwood Parish Council is still in its infancy, £12000 is only half of what Gurnard Parish 2008/9 Budget for Administration alone also Gurnard Parish are putting out feelers for an office ! It seems a backlash for these ideas is happening as Newport PC is finding out.
(check their “Gurnard Parish Forum” at http://www.gurnardpc.co.uk)
In answer to your question, Yes I think Merging is the way forward. It will save money by removing IT and admin duplication, it will need 1 Paid clerk, not 3 and from a pool of say 30 Councilors we will have the opportunity to vote in the 10 we consider to be best for the position. I think Cowes Town Council has had elections for Councillors in the past but Gurnard and Northwood need “ballot paper elections” for the Council seats to give them the respect and authority they deserve and if insufficient numbers apply to require a ballot paper election is that not telling us something?